tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1899606766246433608.post383591949921588369..comments2023-11-08T12:09:20.020-05:00Comments on Prove Me Wrong: Fact #2-The Disciples Sincerely Believe Jesus Rose from the Dead and Appeared to ThemJonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10530680372103907969noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1899606766246433608.post-14544108968282705732007-12-02T18:15:00.000-05:002007-12-02T18:15:00.000-05:00Of course the disciples understood the resurrectio...Of course the disciples understood the resurrection of Jesus Christ in a physical way -- the writers of the gospels went out of their way to affirm this by<BR/>Luke 24:49<BR/>"See My hand and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."<BR/><BR/>John 20:25-28 "Unless I see, .... unless I touch and put my finger into the place . . . and put my hand into His side . . . "<BR/><BR/>Jesus said, "reach here your finger, and see my hands, and reach here your hand,a nd put it into My side, and be not unbelieving but believing."<BR/><BR/>Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"<BR/><BR/>Acts 1:1-11<BR/>convincing proofs . . . <BR/>He was lifted up which they were looking on, and a cloud recieved Him out of their sight."<BR/><BR/>I Corinthians 9:1<BR/>"Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1899606766246433608.post-73278216465896890062007-11-13T15:20:00.000-05:002007-11-13T15:20:00.000-05:00Well, I went back and listened again and I guess I...Well, I went back and listened again and I guess I can see that it is possible we misunderstood each other. What I was trying to ask Greg was, do scholars agree that the disciples had experiences where they thought they had been interacting with a <I>physically</I> resurrected Jesus, as opposed to some sort of experience that maybe they thought was non-physical. Perhaps Greg took my question to mean, do scholars believe Jesus was in fact physically resurrected.<BR/><BR/>Given here that you are denying that Greg admitted what I claimed he admitted, are you now saying that Greg's position is that the vast majority of scholarship, Christian and non, in fact believes the disciples had experiences of the risen Christ that in their mind was physical? If that is Greg's claim, or yours, I'd be curious what you would base that on. I haven't seen Habermas make this claim based upon his research. He simply says scholarship believes Christ appeared to them, but he doesn't specify that he appeared physically.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I'll edit my post to reflect the information you provided.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10530680372103907969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1899606766246433608.post-23878592571762156012007-11-10T12:59:00.000-05:002007-11-10T12:59:00.000-05:00Jon, You've either misunderstood or misconstrued ...Jon, You've either misunderstood or misconstrued what Greg said to you in the call on July 8, 2007. Greg did not "admit" that scholars don't believe Jesus appeared physically to the disciples.<BR/><BR/>Greg was speaking of two views liberal scholars hold. First, their professional estimation of the Gospel accounts, which have good evidence to support their historicity and early dating. Second, the belief in the resurrection these scholars hold, or their opinion of the content of the accounts. Even some scholars who personally don't believe the physical resurrection happened still offer professional credibility to the historicity of the accounts. Greg was making the point that even with the professional evaluation of these scholars who are skeptics of the claims, the Gospels have historical credibility and apologists can make a case from even these scholarly assessments. As he mentioned in the call, Gary Habermas has elaborated on this argument in his books. Greg was simply making a sort of worst case scenario argument that supports belief in Jesus' physical resurrection. <BR/><BR/>Many other scholars do believe the claims of the Gospel accounts. Greg did not make the claim that "scholars do not think the disciples believed that Jesus appeared to them physically," a consensus assessment, as you indicate in your post. He was referring to liberal scholars who still provide credibility to the historical records despite their beliefs about their content. Scholarship taken as a whole does provide credibility to the claim the disciples believed in the physical appearances of Jesus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com