You need to read Dr. Walter Williams - he explains and has been explaining why unemployment and poverty has existed. Listened to him tonight on Fox - brilliant man who is a top Economist, who understands the topic on the next level.
One quoted statistic that made me smile inside because I believe it to my core. Dr. Williams said that 83% of Americans think that a minimum wage is necessary and was a deterrent to poverty, but 90% of economist agree that a minimum wage drives up unemployment and increases poverty.
Fantastic interview, extremely interesting man who I am going to learn a lot more about. By the way - he is a black man born into poverty who believes the nanny state should be abolished and welfare eliminated. Simply put - Mr. Williams said that the government is the drug dealer for welfare recipients and is the single biggest reason for poverty in America.
He brought up some great points about your favorite subject - Haiti as well. Going to research his studies in Haiti, Sweden, South Africa so I have that ammo ready for your next Haiti comments.
Flag I have been waiving for a long time - if the labor is only worth $4 then it should be $4. Instead the all knowing gov't sets the bar to a level beyond what an employer is willing to pay for the labor and so no job. There should be no minimum wage and that is fairly clear.
Used to be a big fan of Walter Williams, though I can't say I've read any of his books. I used to read his columns semi-regularly.
Maybe most economists do think an increase in the minimum wage would be harmful, but I encourage the right wing to consider data as opposed to merely theory. Now, I'm not taking a definitive stand here. You could be right. But you might not be. See things like this or this.
I checked your link. People writing for the Employment Policies Institute think minimum wage is bad. But you should check these sources. This is simply a front group for a right wing ideologue. Look at the bashing of ACORN. If you are a Fox News watcher and you think there was some merit to ACORN bashing, check this out. These are absolutely outrageous lies. Anyway this group was established for the purpose of attacking minimum wage policies. I mean, it's fine to be an ideologue, but still this is not the most credible source.
But here's what I want you to take from the link I provided here. Notice how nasty things get in the lower regulated, lower taxed, lower union world. Key legislation was from 1972 (Bretton Woods) and also Reagan's aggressive assault on regulation. Things basically turn down in 1974. That's interesting when you consider right wing fawning over people like Reagan.
Your response is expected unfortunately, but as usual it defies common sense so let me spell it out for you in the most simple way I can in my little world. If you dismiss the 80% of economists that believe that a minimum wage creates unemployment then take it from an employer who would be willing to hire 2-3 low skill employees for $4-$5 an hour tomorrow. Or let me tell you about a Michigan company that I work with everyday - low skill doesn't appropriately classify the 20 labor workers at this company. If I were the president of the company I would fire every one of these bums - they cost their company and my company money due to their incompetence, but they are union so they take a wage that they do not earn. Instead of employing 40 low skilled workers at a wage comparable to their skill which is about $5/hr, this company can only afford to employ 20 unskilled workers at a rate that does not match the skill and puts business at risk.
Here is logic that can not be broken. If the labor for a low skilled job can support $4/hr and you demand that we pay $8 for that labor - artificially inflating labor the results are very predictable even though they may escape you and your agenda, but let me tell you from a business perspective what happens sir.
#1 - I hire the minimum number of low skilled workers possible placing additional burden most likely on a higher skilled salary employee - increasing their responsibility and most likely their time away from their family.
#2 - Since I will hire the minimum amount of low skilled labor as possible, the opportunity for someone to advance in my company through success and hard work will be limited. Fewer layers mean far fewer opportunities.
#3 - My production will suffer because I do not have the necessary nu,ber of employees to account for sick days, personal days, vacation days and general incompetence causing me to implement strict attendance policies, shorter break periods, shorter lunch hours and so on. If you want to force a wage that does not match the job then I must hold that employee to a far more strict work environment to produce the product needed to make the money to pay for payroll.
#4 - The cost of my goods is also artificially inflated as well making my widget cost more every year.
#5 - I invest in technology over people. For the company I spoke about earlier - a $150K investment in technology allowed us to eliminate 7 low skilled workers who had artificially inflated labor rates. We made the money back in less than 1 year.
I am not sure why I waste my time writing all this, it is pretty clear your not interested in helping the poor because your arguments rarely help those groups. You write that Republicans want higher unemployment, but truthfully you want higher unemployment to justify stealing OPM! No minimum wage cuts the unemployment in half in 3 months or less. Cost of certain goods will come down and labor competition for good workers will create a new low-middle class of society. Those without skill who learn a skill and move up the ladder through hard work - sounds great!
I am not an economist, but I am pretty smart - if you decide the minimum value of labor is $7.75/hr or more which I suspect you want, but the business burden can only allow $4/hr then two things happen from a business side.
You need to read Dr. Walter Williams - he explains and has been explaining why unemployment and poverty has existed. Listened to him tonight on Fox - brilliant man who is a top Economist, who understands the topic on the next level.
ReplyDeleteOne quoted statistic that made me smile inside because I believe it to my core. Dr. Williams said that 83% of Americans think that a minimum wage is necessary and was a deterrent to poverty, but 90% of economist agree that a minimum wage drives up unemployment and increases poverty.
Fantastic interview, extremely interesting man who I am going to learn a lot more about. By the way - he is a black man born into poverty who believes the nanny state should be abolished and welfare eliminated. Simply put - Mr. Williams said that the government is the drug dealer for welfare recipients and is the single biggest reason for poverty in America.
He brought up some great points about your favorite subject - Haiti as well. Going to research his studies in Haiti, Sweden, South Africa so I have that ammo ready for your next Haiti comments.
Jon - here is a link to support what I watched tonight. Economists proving that the min wage is bad bad bad.
ReplyDeletehttp://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/11/MinimumWagesDiscriminatoryEffects
Flag I have been waiving for a long time - if the labor is only worth $4 then it should be $4. Instead the all knowing gov't sets the bar to a level beyond what an employer is willing to pay for the labor and so no job. There should be no minimum wage and that is fairly clear.
Used to be a big fan of Walter Williams, though I can't say I've read any of his books. I used to read his columns semi-regularly.
ReplyDeleteMaybe most economists do think an increase in the minimum wage would be harmful, but I encourage the right wing to consider data as opposed to merely theory. Now, I'm not taking a definitive stand here. You could be right. But you might not be. See things like this or this.
I checked your link. People writing for the Employment Policies Institute think minimum wage is bad. But you should check these sources. This is simply a front group for a right wing ideologue. Look at the bashing of ACORN. If you are a Fox News watcher and you think there was some merit to ACORN bashing, check this out. These are absolutely outrageous lies. Anyway this group was established for the purpose of attacking minimum wage policies. I mean, it's fine to be an ideologue, but still this is not the most credible source.
But here's what I want you to take from the link I provided here. Notice how nasty things get in the lower regulated, lower taxed, lower union world. Key legislation was from 1972 (Bretton Woods) and also Reagan's aggressive assault on regulation. Things basically turn down in 1974. That's interesting when you consider right wing fawning over people like Reagan.
Your response is expected unfortunately, but as usual it defies common sense so let me spell it out for you in the most simple way I can in my little world. If you dismiss the 80% of economists that believe that a minimum wage creates unemployment then take it from an employer who would be willing to hire 2-3 low skill employees for $4-$5 an hour tomorrow. Or let me tell you about a Michigan company that I work with everyday - low skill doesn't appropriately classify the 20 labor workers at this company. If I were the president of the company I would fire every one of these bums - they cost their company and my company money due to their incompetence, but they are union so they take a wage that they do not earn. Instead of employing 40 low skilled workers at a wage comparable to their skill which is about $5/hr, this company can only afford to employ 20 unskilled workers at a rate that does not match the skill and puts business at risk.
ReplyDeleteHere is logic that can not be broken. If the labor for a low skilled job can support $4/hr and you demand that we pay $8 for that labor - artificially inflating labor the results are very predictable even though they may escape you and your agenda, but let me tell you from a business perspective what happens sir.
#1 - I hire the minimum number of low skilled workers possible placing additional burden most likely on a higher skilled salary employee - increasing their responsibility and most likely their time away from their family.
#2 - Since I will hire the minimum amount of low skilled labor as possible, the opportunity for someone to advance in my company through success and hard work will be limited. Fewer layers mean far fewer opportunities.
#3 - My production will suffer because I do not have the necessary nu,ber of employees to account for sick days, personal days, vacation days and general incompetence causing me to implement strict attendance policies, shorter break periods, shorter lunch hours and so on. If you want to force a wage that does not match the job then I must hold that employee to a far more strict work environment to produce the product needed to make the money to pay for payroll.
#4 - The cost of my goods is also artificially inflated as well making my widget cost more every year.
#5 - I invest in technology over people. For the company I spoke about earlier - a $150K investment in technology allowed us to eliminate 7 low skilled workers who had artificially inflated labor rates. We made the money back in less than 1 year.
I am not sure why I waste my time writing all this, it is pretty clear your not interested in helping the poor because your arguments rarely help those groups. You write that Republicans want higher unemployment, but truthfully you want higher unemployment to justify stealing OPM! No minimum wage cuts the unemployment in half in 3 months or less. Cost of certain goods will come down and labor competition for good workers will create a new low-middle class of society. Those without skill who learn a skill and move up the ladder through hard work - sounds great!
I am not an economist, but I am pretty smart - if you decide the minimum value of labor is $7.75/hr or more which I suspect you want, but the business burden can only allow $4/hr then two things happen from a business side.