What is laughable is that the liberal movement caused the pie chart to occur. For decades they have waged war on the rich through taxes and forced labor costs via unions and the rich simply smiled and said ok - we'll manufacturer in a country that wants to work and will accept a wage that will allow them to be competitive in the market place. I talk to these people so this is not an opinion either.
Liberals (which include the fake phony conservatives by the way) got beat at their own game. They continued to take and take because their big brain thinks they know what is best for all and it has taken us to this point.
Time to re-think the progressive movement - lower corporate taxes to zero, lower regulations, eliminate the minimum wage and bring back the estimated 6-9 million manufacturing and support sector jobs lost since 1998.
The idea that somehow we will be able to tax our way out or this completely idiotic re-distribution idea needs to be shelved.
Also - watch this piece about redistribution. Interesting that liberal thinkers who are so smart - have no issues with taking someone elses money for no reason at all, but to share their grades with the less fortunate well now that is not fair. Socialism is for the people just not the Socialist!
Jon - I am really not trying to be a smarty pants either. I mean it - the progressive movement is in real serious trouble. Their only strategy is to demonize the job creators and the wealth they need to get what they want. Ann Coulter's book is starting to come true - mobs and groups of liberals are starting to take to the streets with no power to make change. They are screaming for change with no idea how to create that change they so desperately desire. The progressive movement needs a brand new leader and direction that will embrace capitalism as the answer to a more equal world.
This idea to rise up (ACLU Idiot) is only going to hurt the Progressive party more and eventually it is going to get people hurt and eventually killed. There is a HUGE group of well armed Americans who will protect their private property from these mobs and I am one of them.
You call this waging war through taxes over the last few decades. You see this as a rise in union power driving away business over the last few decades. Union participation is now at a 70 year low. I don't know what it's going to take to get through to you, Chad. The last 30 years reflects the implementation of precisely the policies you recommend. The result is record unemployment, record deficits, record inequality, record severe poverty while the rich enjoy record income and corporations enjoy record profits. The rich with more than ever. The poor with less than ever. And yet you say let's do things to funnel more into the pockets of the rich.
So let's talk about redistributing grades. Let's complete the analogy. Suppose if your GPA was under 3.0 you had to live on $200 week, like 1 in 6 Americans do. Between a 3.0 and 4.0 meant you earn $200/wk and $100,000/wk. Do I support redistribution of grades? Yes. Put it to the students at the school that way and they'd support it.
We know what changes should be implemented. Look at public opinion polls. The public want single payer health care, higher taxes on the rich, less war, less surveillance state. We have all kinds of ideas, and we have the majority of the public on our side. The difference is the rich are able to buy the politicians and the general public can't afford them.
The piece by the Blaze disputes your claim - the students supporting your ideas were not willing to share their grades - it was the foundation of the piece they did. I believe that only those earning grades of C or below would vote for that idea.
I will concede that the general public via these polls show support for your ideas. You grab slappy's off the street and ask them slanted questions you will get your answers - I would like those polls to show who the voters offering their opinions are because they are not business owners and certainly not the job creators.
Lets be clear for one second about my position - I believe that the wealth being controlled by so few is overall a bad thing. The difference between you and I - fundementally - is how to adjust that situation. Your belief is to take earnings and hand that money to the non earners through gov't. My idea is to allow others to create earnings. For instance what do you think would happen if the gov't announced today that a new business would be tax exempt for the first 5 years? What would happen if the gov't offered a tax break for vendors/suppliers who offer smaller stores the same price point for products as Wal Mart? That last sentence stretches my beliefs some, but it is a way to encourage Chad to open a retail store for sports apparel knowing that I can buy Louisville Sluggers at that same price as Wal-Mart pays. Next to my shop there might be Barb's fresh food mart - again she can buy as good as Wal Mart so she would be encouraged to open a shop. It is not a forced regulation, but instead it is an incentive for a vendor to work with smaller companies which will help to spread out the wealth and allow good business to survive and bad businesses to fail. At the same time leveling the playing field to avoid the biggest to muscle out the smaller players. There should not be a Wal-Mart every 5 miles.
How about a tax break for companies buying American Manufactured products? A company that buys 100% of their goods from American producers become a tax excempt company? 50% results a 50% tax reduction? Promote America - promote American products and promote capitalism for all - then let the winners win.
Also - please forget about the universal health care thing - I know you believe in it, but it will never happen using government as the tool - not in America. There are ways for the gov't to make it easier for a group of people to band together to shop their services in the private market place through and echange to reduce costs and keep a high level of service. There is also a need for a gov't driven system for those who do not have the means to get health care, but should be an entirely different animal and not 100% tax payer driven.
In fact Chad the wealthy are the real job killers. Don't believe me? Check this article which looks at studies from the Wall St Journal. According to majority of economists surveyed as well as business owners hiring isn't happening because of weak demand. Not uncertainty about future taxes or regulations. Weak demand. Why is demand weak? In 1979 the top 1% took home about 9% of all the income. By 2007 that was up to 23.5%. When the poor get more money they spend it, stimulating demand and leading to jobs. When the rich get more money they throw it on the pile. They don't have to spend it because they don't need things as the poor do. So demand falls and businesses can't hire. In fact the rich are the job killers.
What should be done in your world? Put more money in the pockets of the rich and provide less to the poor. What will that do? Depress demand even further than it already is. What does that do? It leads to further job cuts, not hiring. And it's precisely what this country has been doing over the last 30 years. We got by in the past by creating bubbles. Home equity loans provided the stimulus needed to keep demand high and unemployment low. Those have burst, so the poor just don't have the money to spend and consume. So the demand falls and the jobs dry up. What you are recommending is precisely what will make the situation worse.
Once again, the Blaze did not refute what I said. I said if grades determine our compensation, then yes, grades should be redistributed. People really don't start from the same place. It's not equally easy to get A's if you're an inner city black as compared to a suburban white. So supposing the white kid is allocated a million dollar salary based on his grades but the black kid gets borderline starvation wages because of his poor grades, even though his grades are what they are largely due to factors beyond his control. Yeah, I'll support grade redistribution in that case and so would a lot of people.
I am not sure you fully read my post. I actually agree with you and have for a very long time that having a great majority of the wealth controlled by a small segment is a very big issue. Even my far right economist professor friend has pointed out that this is an issue that has gotten out of control. We just have a different philosophy on how to attack and correct that problem.
I think we could go round and round about demand. US demand/Global demand - what demand are you talking about? China and other countries seemed to be pretty busy importing to the US. When Ford opens a new facility up in India - is that because the US tax code is too low then? Are they opening it there because the labor demands and mandates through regulations are too high? Please be realistic and honest that taxes, regulations and the over bearing labor costs matter and they matter a lot.
I also completely dispell your overall thought process in your last paragraph. There are plenty of kids that came out of the ghetto to become doctors/lawyers and plenty of millionare kids in jail and broke. What you become and how you become it is the responsibility of the individual - if a person wants to succeed they will find a way to do so. If an individuals mental make up is to stay depressed and uneducated they will. Even in your perfect world Jon there will be A students and F students - there will be doctors and there will be factory workers - that will never change.
7 comments:
What is laughable is that the liberal movement caused the pie chart to occur. For decades they have waged war on the rich through taxes and forced labor costs via unions and the rich simply smiled and said ok - we'll manufacturer in a country that wants to work and will accept a wage that will allow them to be competitive in the market place. I talk to these people so this is not an opinion either.
Liberals (which include the fake phony conservatives by the way) got beat at their own game. They continued to take and take because their big brain thinks they know what is best for all and it has taken us to this point.
Time to re-think the progressive movement - lower corporate taxes to zero, lower regulations, eliminate the minimum wage and bring back the estimated 6-9 million manufacturing and support sector jobs lost since 1998.
The idea that somehow we will be able to tax our way out or this completely idiotic re-distribution idea needs to be shelved.
Also - watch this piece about redistribution. Interesting that liberal thinkers who are so smart - have no issues with taking someone elses money for no reason at all, but to share their grades with the less fortunate well now that is not fair. Socialism is for the people just not the Socialist!
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/liberal-college-students-eager-to-redistribute-wealth-are-less-eager-to-redistribute-hard-earned-grades/
Jon - I am really not trying to be a smarty pants either. I mean it - the progressive movement is in real serious trouble. Their only strategy is to demonize the job creators and the wealth they need to get what they want. Ann Coulter's book is starting to come true - mobs and groups of liberals are starting to take to the streets with no power to make change. They are screaming for change with no idea how to create that change they so desperately desire. The progressive movement needs a brand new leader and direction that will embrace capitalism as the answer to a more equal world.
This idea to rise up (ACLU Idiot) is only going to hurt the Progressive party more and eventually it is going to get people hurt and eventually killed. There is a HUGE group of well armed Americans who will protect their private property from these mobs and I am one of them.
You call this waging war through taxes over the last few decades. You see this as a rise in union power driving away business over the last few decades. Union participation is now at a 70 year low. I don't know what it's going to take to get through to you, Chad. The last 30 years reflects the implementation of precisely the policies you recommend. The result is record unemployment, record deficits, record inequality, record severe poverty while the rich enjoy record income and corporations enjoy record profits. The rich with more than ever. The poor with less than ever. And yet you say let's do things to funnel more into the pockets of the rich.
So let's talk about redistributing grades. Let's complete the analogy. Suppose if your GPA was under 3.0 you had to live on $200 week, like 1 in 6 Americans do. Between a 3.0 and 4.0 meant you earn $200/wk and $100,000/wk. Do I support redistribution of grades? Yes. Put it to the students at the school that way and they'd support it.
We know what changes should be implemented. Look at public opinion polls. The public want single payer health care, higher taxes on the rich, less war, less surveillance state. We have all kinds of ideas, and we have the majority of the public on our side. The difference is the rich are able to buy the politicians and the general public can't afford them.
The piece by the Blaze disputes your claim - the students supporting your ideas were not willing to share their grades - it was the foundation of the piece they did. I believe that only those earning grades of C or below would vote for that idea.
I will concede that the general public via these polls show support for your ideas. You grab slappy's off the street and ask them slanted questions you will get your answers - I would like those polls to show who the voters offering their opinions are because they are not business owners and certainly not the job creators.
Lets be clear for one second about my position - I believe that the wealth being controlled by so few is overall a bad thing. The difference between you and I - fundementally - is how to adjust that situation. Your belief is to take earnings and hand that money to the non earners through gov't. My idea is to allow others to create earnings. For instance what do you think would happen if the gov't announced today that a new business would be tax exempt for the first 5 years? What would happen if the gov't offered a tax break for vendors/suppliers who offer smaller stores the same price point for products as Wal Mart? That last sentence stretches my beliefs some, but it is a way to encourage Chad to open a retail store for sports apparel knowing that I can buy Louisville Sluggers at that same price as Wal-Mart pays. Next to my shop there might be Barb's fresh food mart - again she can buy as good as Wal Mart so she would be encouraged to open a shop. It is not a forced regulation, but instead it is an incentive for a vendor to work with smaller companies which will help to spread out the wealth and allow good business to survive and bad businesses to fail. At the same time leveling the playing field to avoid the biggest to muscle out the smaller players. There should not be a Wal-Mart every 5 miles.
How about a tax break for companies buying American Manufactured products? A company that buys 100% of their goods from American producers become a tax excempt company? 50% results a 50% tax reduction? Promote America - promote American products and promote capitalism for all - then let the winners win.
Also - please forget about the universal health care thing - I know you believe in it, but it will never happen using government as the tool - not in America. There are ways for the gov't to make it easier for a group of people to band together to shop their services in the private market place through and echange to reduce costs and keep a high level of service. There is also a need for a gov't driven system for those who do not have the means to get health care, but should be an entirely different animal and not 100% tax payer driven.
In fact Chad the wealthy are the real job killers. Don't believe me? Check this article which looks at studies from the Wall St Journal. According to majority of economists surveyed as well as business owners hiring isn't happening because of weak demand. Not uncertainty about future taxes or regulations. Weak demand. Why is demand weak? In 1979 the top 1% took home about 9% of all the income. By 2007 that was up to 23.5%. When the poor get more money they spend it, stimulating demand and leading to jobs. When the rich get more money they throw it on the pile. They don't have to spend it because they don't need things as the poor do. So demand falls and businesses can't hire. In fact the rich are the job killers.
What should be done in your world? Put more money in the pockets of the rich and provide less to the poor. What will that do? Depress demand even further than it already is. What does that do? It leads to further job cuts, not hiring. And it's precisely what this country has been doing over the last 30 years. We got by in the past by creating bubbles. Home equity loans provided the stimulus needed to keep demand high and unemployment low. Those have burst, so the poor just don't have the money to spend and consume. So the demand falls and the jobs dry up. What you are recommending is precisely what will make the situation worse.
Once again, the Blaze did not refute what I said. I said if grades determine our compensation, then yes, grades should be redistributed. People really don't start from the same place. It's not equally easy to get A's if you're an inner city black as compared to a suburban white. So supposing the white kid is allocated a million dollar salary based on his grades but the black kid gets borderline starvation wages because of his poor grades, even though his grades are what they are largely due to factors beyond his control. Yeah, I'll support grade redistribution in that case and so would a lot of people.
I am not sure you fully read my post. I actually agree with you and have for a very long time that having a great majority of the wealth controlled by a small segment is a very big issue. Even my far right economist professor friend has pointed out that this is an issue that has gotten out of control. We just have a different philosophy on how to attack and correct that problem.
I think we could go round and round about demand. US demand/Global demand - what demand are you talking about? China and other countries seemed to be pretty busy importing to the US. When Ford opens a new facility up in India - is that because the US tax code is too low then? Are they opening it there because the labor demands and mandates through regulations are too high? Please be realistic and honest that taxes, regulations and the over bearing labor costs matter and they matter a lot.
I also completely dispell your overall thought process in your last paragraph. There are plenty of kids that came out of the ghetto to become doctors/lawyers and plenty of millionare kids in jail and broke. What you become and how you become it is the responsibility of the individual - if a person wants to succeed they will find a way to do so. If an individuals mental make up is to stay depressed and uneducated they will. Even in your perfect world Jon there will be A students and F students - there will be doctors and there will be factory workers - that will never change.
KPBS is own by corporate government. Too biased to trust. :_)
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