Friday, July 25, 2014

Capitalism Doesn't Add Up


Jonathan said...

People long on diagnosis but short on cure make me smile. Here's a thought - identify a problem, and then invest the time to learn to live in a way consistent with your values, instead of spending the time to create videos lamenting the injustices of the world you continue to embrace with your actions.

Admittedly, I did not bother to research the author of this video, so if he's embracing a life consistent with his abhorrence of capitalism, and showing others how to likewise, by all means - "prove me wrong".

In the mean time, I will continue to embrace the parts of capitalism which allow me to help make the world a better place on a daily basis.

Chad said...

I want that 8 minutes of my life that I just wasted back - that was horrible on about 50 different levels of stupidity.

My only question/concern is how this guy was allowed to teach? Thankfully it appears that he was a math teacher and thank God for that because Math is something that not even a liberal can screw up!

Examinator said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Examinator said...

I think you missed the point. Videos like this one are (i) never (/i) created to be prescriptive rather to encourage thought/conversation, question orthodoxy.
Socrates taught us that the only path to wisdom is to question everything even our most cherished beliefs.
There are three obvious and relevant thoughts that stem from this.
The first is that without such change (advancement) is impossible.
the second any prescriptive solution (i/)must(/i) be predicated on a (i/)belief(/i) of superior knowledge. When dealing with the headline topic and therefore it's relationship with culture, religion etc a 8 minute/ 8hour video is by definition insufficient time to do the topic justice. it is valid to point out the problems.
The third point is that the vast majority of people resist change therefore every major change must be incremental ... making one person at a time aware that action (i/)must(/i) inclusive...consensus.
The usual attack against changing orthodoxy begins with a dismissive smile (you) to derisive comments Chad.
Both reactions demonstrate self interested resistance. Again Chad fears he has the most to lose.
The parable of the Samaritan comes to mind.
keep in mind culture religion and government philosophy reflects the circumstances of their ( the people's (i/)initial(/i) survival.
I would argue that all of this is more often than not the (b/)cause(/b). Consider The Palestinian)/Israeli catastrophe (holocaust in an apt word) see Z communications to see Chomsky's and others latest. NB how they differentiate and put religion in a minor context.

Jonathan said...


I believe you are missing my point. It's not an issue of questioning beliefs - the author of this video was no Socrates, and socrates was no hypocrate - he lived and died for his principles, he didn't just tweet his unorthodoxy.

I agree, we should question orthodoxy, and the orthodoxy of today is to criticize the ills of society, in nice blogible nuggets, and four minute videos.

It's easy to throw stones, much harder to find solutions.

I find it hard to believe those who claim to be so concerned about topic X, yet don't bother to think of any solutions, nor offer any solutions to the rest of us poor and ignorant conformists.

I believe most people have their pet topics, and like to complain about them. Ultimately, if their points are indeed true, and the large majority of society is actually wrong, then they are in fact the most hypocritical of us all, because they refuse to take any actual action to help themselves or others.

I would image you might feel the same way about Christians who claim the lost are going to hell, but then seem to enjoy telling everyone around them how wrong they are?

If one is so certain that their unorthodoxy is correct, then this should be exhibited in their actions, otherwise they are just being hypocritical. That's all I'm saying.

Examinator said...

no I didn't miss your point.
The problem is that it is impossible to be able to know or consider all the factors that will either separately, in combination or cumulatively influence the issue.
You tend to be absolutist in your perspective.
I can say with some surety how something effects me or how I believe it MAY effect others but to offer a solution is utter delusion or arrogance.
I.e. I can say that I believe that AGW is real ...based on my limited understanding of the science. But for me to make the next step and offer/ proselyte a prescriptive conclusion would be utterly Preposterously arrogant. I would be assuming a knowledge of multiple disciplines I simply don't have.
To suggest a solution or alternate to 'capitalism' is likewise preposterous. it is for that reason I favour Post structuralism and existentialism philosophies.
If we are becoming the age of the instant answer it is largely because of emotionally motivated Consumerism the hand maiden of capitalism.
It is impossible to exist in a first world country and not deal with capitalism ... that only makes a hypocrite if their intention is to deceive.
I don't believe in nationalism but I can't survive and not obey its laws.

Chad said...

Kudos Jonathan.

Agreed on many levels sir - pointing out what is wrong is the easy part, finding viable solutions is the hard part. Saying (like the video suggests) that the answer is seizing the wealth for others or seizing control of industry via gov't power is on the table is never going to be the answer - it won't ever happen in America there would be another civil war to be sure.

That is why I continue to regress back to the most common sense solution available to all of us - it follows the Constitution and it is fair. Give the power to each State and take that power from the federal overlord. That is the only way we are going to find out what actually does work - hell with active and supportive members to both sides - they may both work who knows. Jon and maybe Ex moves to a very Liberal State or County/City even (doesn't have to be an entire State) and I will continue living in a Right Wing County/City/State. We both have gov'ts, we make laws and then we all must pay for our decisions - for those laws and the people who live by those laws/decisions. At no point can a City get money from a County - a County from a State and a State from Gov't - the ideas must be able to be fully funded by the people. Unless a good or service is exchanged we are not allowed to tax one another and the Federal Gov't - as it was designed to do - takes care of the big picture stuff (16 powers) and occasionally is the ref to state vs state or county vs state disagreement.

You want your City to own the local manufacturing facility then the City can buy that business, fund it and run it. WE ALL have seen how City ran stuff has been working out across the country.

Capitalism makes the hard choices that gov't and Liberal thinkers are not willing to do. They kill what needs to be killed - adjust when adjustment is needed otherwise they die. Is it perfect - not in the least, but it is imperfectly beautiful because it lives and breaths, it moves and new players can rise and fall almost overnight. Janitors can become millionaires and millionaires can become bums - it is wonderful.

Right now your paycheck and businesses bottom line gets raided every pay period blindly for the most part and we get used to the rape because most of us have no clue where the hell it goes, who is making the call and why. If your initial income taxes, soc sec portion and such is first sent to the City for instance then they take what they need to run the city and forward the balance to County who takes their portion for county business then that balance to State to pay for their business and finally what is left is sent to the Federal Gov't. If someone is not made whole then you got another bill sent down the pipeline and when the local City Magistrate sends an additional tax bill because of decisions being made around them - that's when you will see people pay attention to all the issues.

Right now the Left Wing Media is showing these O-so poor babies that have come across (ILLEGALLY) and are now being placed by Liberals in towns all over this land. The individual liberal is saying - good they are human and we need to help. That's fine so in my way the City is going to send you a brand new bill to pay for those new mouths this month - lets see how long they stay Liberals in that scenario.

You see Americans have become completely numb - our paychecks get raped before we even see the money. Once its in our hands we forget how poorly it is being used - we hear about Trillions of national debt and no one can even grasp what that means because - BECAUSE it hardly affects them. Its happening in that fairy tale land called Gov't somewhere in the East Coast. Bring those poor policy decision to the street - collect the money from the individual and then we will see what policies people will vote for.

Chad said...


It is easy to blame capitalism, blame the wealthy and corporatism because it continues to work. Even the Elite Democrats/Liberals know this to be true so they publically denounce these actions while privately collecting millions along side their Conservative counterparts. Chomsky has made millions of dollars off this activity and I still have yet to read or hear about any significant contributions that he has made to society with his money. The Koch Brothers are (in a liberals mind) ruthless bastards who kill the earth, make too much money and influence people in the wrong way or what have you - some of that may be true, but they at least contribute money back to the community, to society in good and positive ways (not to mention the millions they employ throughout the pipeline).

The guy screaming about Global Warming - has his own Jet for goodness sakes burning carbon at a rate probably 1 million times what I do.

Do as I say and not as I do I suppose.

Jon said...

Jonathan, isn't education a part of the change process? The people I most admire that work to bring change do many things and it does include tweets. Writing articles. Talking with people. You say throwing stones is easy. People don't know where to throw stones. This video is one guys effort at helping you identify the target. Remember that for Chad the target is illegal immigrants, single mothers. I think he has the wrong target, so informing him is important and worth doing in my opinion.

Jon said...

That key to change is organization. You get people united behind a just cause. The organization doesn't currently exist, so if you want to help bring it about informing people, like is done in this video, is the first step. I imagine he had to spend a fair amount of time to create this video. Video editing probably takes some time. Not rocket science I imagine, but let's give him credit.

Chad said...

Jon - You've got it wrong not surprisingly - let me correct the aim of my arrows.

Illegals who willfully and knowingly break the laws of this land should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law along side every other legal citizen breaking other laws of the land. The just happen to be breaking a federal law / a felony offense same as drunk driving, murder, kidnapping and being caught with drugs.

My target is ANY individual or group that excuses themselves from personal responsibility when making a personal/singular/group choice in their life. I know several single mothers who have my undying respect. A persons social status, individual choices they make inside the law make little difference to me. What matters is that they take full responsibility for those choices is where my line in the sand is drawn.

I don't fault people for their decisions, but I simply ask them to take full responsibility for those decisions especially financially.

Just wanted to be sure that was cleared up.

I admire greatly the thought process, the ideas that come from the left - I really do, but again I only ask that they take financial responsibility for those ideas versus taking OPM for it. Its a simple concept - bring ideas to the table that can survive without my (or anyone's) forced participation and lets talk. If it is a good idea then it should be able to not only survive on its own, but grow and invite people with different ethical and moral ideals - that then is a sound idea and worth a discussion.

Examinator said...

My point is and always been.
It's valid to express how you interpret a situation but it is logically and practically impossible for that person to know all the factors involved and how they will affect others' circumstances.
Simply put any man in the street's assessment and subsequent prescriptive conclusion is most likely ill/ under informed and therefore dangerous.
any body who puts up a dogmatic solution for a complex issue is not to be believed and is probably either a fool or a mindless zealot
your expectation is unreasonable and seeming tinted with defensiveness for your satus quo
The days of the polymath e.g. Ben Franklin et al are long long gone.

The available information and technology today forces experts to be so in narrow fields and collaborate with in increasing number of other disciplines.

AGW is one such a case the evidence come from 50-60 discreet specializations.

Once we believed that people were either good or bad, diligent or indolent etc. But current science/research shows that it isn't that cut and dry.
Almost every week we learn more about what the factors are that form an individual and their personality. Once there were psychiatrists... but now there are genetic psychologists, brain scientists, researchers in both and the latest is the epigenetist.
The problem we have in society is that it and its laws are falling behind. One simply need to look at cyber crime and the pit fall of surveillance.
In short the laws are reactive in a proactive world.
Capitalism was fine for when and the circumstances it was invented for. However today technology etc has made law enforcement and the ,support for the old time moral code nigh on impossible.
Our ethics and laws are not keeping pace.
Even from a Christian perspective we are unable to maintain its precepts.
i.e. 'am I my brother's keeper?' God said yes it was reaffirmed in the parable of the Good Samaritan
God didn't put caveats on these commands... i.e. They're not like me or they're over there in China.
By your reasoning all western Christians are hypercrits.
I think not!

Examinator said...

To a point I agree with you about personal responsibility BUT where do you draw the line? The end of your family, your parish, circle of friends, Americans ?
Your God would suggest not! As I wrote in the missive to Jonathan modern Western Christians are very selective in what Christian ethics they adhere to and even more to when.
Take for example the Israeli /Palestinian Holocaust. Surely God has indicated that US and other Christians should stop supporting Israel, particularly with 10's of Billions in military aid, in what is palpably a one sided genocide. All this to placate a fractious/ belligerent (Christian/ right wing and Jewish lobbies). That doesn't mean that Hamas is blameless nor it's supporters.
But reality dictates that Israel has gone way beyond their pretences of self defence. .
There is oodles of independent(US military and NASA) evidence to support the thrust of the article.
As for the Mexican refugees. The prime source of the problems in that country come from the drug cartels... their clients are almost exclusively USA.
And...guess what the weapons come from ... oops USA.
My specific question to you is when do you and your side of politics start to abide by your professed God's dictums?
Surely the dilettante hobby of hunting should come second to ... your Christian values?
Oh yes the USA is the world's biggest supplies of weapons (the means)to the unscrupulous regimes and psychopathic zealots. All this for Capitalism shouldn't capitalism accept it's responsibility to Christian values?

Jon said...

Illegals who willfully and knowingly break the laws of this land should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law along side every other legal citizen breaking other laws of the land.

I get that and on the surface I think it's a reasonable position. But I think you fail to distinguish between how prosecutions happen in the real world and the world of theory.

In theory everyone that breaks the law is punished equally. In reality the rich are above the law. I'm talking about rich people who rape children, bribe public officials, and aggressively pollute to the point where people die as a result. When you emphasize the crimes of the poor and for the most part ignore the crimes of the rich the effect of that in the real world is that the poor become the only target.

Let's note the emphasis you put on certain law breaking. Illegal immigration is something you talk about a lot. White collar crime is something you NEVER bring up. In response to me pointing it out you'll say sure, bankers should go to jail too, but you never notice it without me bringing it to your attention. It's an afterthought. Bankers have not gone to jail, nor will they if you continue to talk about poor crime only.

Where are these illegals coming from? El Salvador and Honduras. Places that currently are bad to live for several reasons, but if you had to pick the main one you'd have to say it was the right wing military juntas installed by the US. El Salvador is one of the main places where the famous US trained "death squads" roamed, just murdering leftists and union organizers. Anyone that they could call a commie, which is anyone that wants public services for the poor. Anyone that was expected to vote the wrong way (i.e. for a socialist and not the right wing dictator).

OK, they broke our laws coming here. Our government broke more important laws. Moral laws. Laws against murder, torture, killing of women and children. Our government and US corporations owe these people more than US citizenship. They are owed extensive reparations. If you were driven from El Salvador by the US with hunger, murder of family members, and the like, you would come here too and it would be wrong to turn you away. It is the policies of our government influenced by US corporations that drove you here, and those same agents would owe you.

The fact that you dismiss all of that and just offer the simplistic "everyone that breaks the law should be prosecuted", that to me is pretty callous, and is the basis of my claim that these weak suffering people are your targets, not the rich who break the law and cause far more damage.

Chad said...

Which dictums are you referring too exactly Ex?

Are you suggesting then that all Christians - if they aren't forfeiting all their wages, turning the other cheek and voice opposition to the parasite they are no longer Christians? Your confusion here is startling. Capitalism is not tied to Charity or Christianity - the individual must choose to follow what has been put in their heart and or soul.

Chad said...

JC - Rich or Poor I don't give a shit, I picked crimes that are a bit more violent to bring across the point. White collar, blue collar, red collar crimes - all the same. The rich do gain favoritism in some cases absolutely - so does some poor colored people (playing race card) and many illegal immigrants as well - scoreboard is about even or the rich folk is a bit behind. None of which I support.

In regards to the gov'ts "immoral actions" how in God's green earth can you pin that to my vest? I don't own those decisions, many times I don't condone those decisions - as I said before if it were up to little old Chad I wouldn't occupy a single solitary country other than the USA - probably build a 20 foot high wall with a 20 foot wide moat with motion sensor 50 cal machine guns mounted every 20 feet.

Of course a bit of tongue and cheek there, but I would cut all aid to every country that has no alliance to the USA.

The gov't has been breaking laws before there were laws - we enslaved Indians, colored people, certain races of people during the war - you name it this country has done it, but guess what my friend so has every single other country, dictator and president in history all over this planet. So what.

Examinator said...

I'm not saying that those who don't follow the precepts of the bible and Christianity aren't Christians. Nor am I suggesting that the average Christian give up his wages et al ... that is you spinning my actual words by interpreting in non existent(impossible to achieve) absolutes.
That is a tired old right wing tactic to avoid the issue(s).
Capitalism is based and today practised on specifically ignoring the Christian ethic as taught in the Bible and in it's precepts.
If you read what I wrote carefully you will note I spelled out the some of the dictums and the link.
Granted it required both some thought and objectivity.
Modern capitalism always chooses the cheapest(most profitable and subsequently the least Christian) option regardless of the "collateral damage".
Military munitions (fire arms ) and pharmaceuticals are a perfect examples.
in the latter case business would rather market yet another dubious 'instant fat reducing pill' than research into the preventable diseases are ignored.
Given that Capitalism is supposed to be demand and supply based. The point is there is a far greater life or death need of 100,000 thousands for say a cure for malaria et al. Yet billions are spent on advertising/marketing of cures(sic) for
problems that can be cured by simply eating in moderation and exercise.
NB genetic and epigenetic causes for Obesity and diabetes et al are not cured by so called diet pills.
In effect this means that the self-righteous west would rather pander to indolence and laziness of the profligate than the the truly needy. What's Christian about that? Nothing.
Chad, lest be crystal clear about this I'm not advocating any other extremist solution(sic) i.e. Communism et al so don't go there.
What I am saying is that the excesses of capitalism need to be curbed... the question is how? To that I have no definitive answer.
I would suggest that if capitalism was imbued with both moderation and more of the "Christian?(read universal)" ethics. More would benefit.
Do you realize that if say the likes of Amazon etc were to pay their share of taxes then the overall tax burden could be reduced by an estimated 25%?

Jon said...

Are we not responsible for the governments we have and the economic systems we permit? That's why those illegals are here. To wag your finger at them and say "You broke the law" seems crazy.

And don't tell me that rich and poor law breaking is all the same to you. It's not. You never complain about the crimes of the rich. Never complain when they pollute, when they through negligence cause accidents like large explosions or ruined water supplies in W Virginia. The war in Iraq was a major violation of US law. The US has adopted the UN Charter which makes the UN Charter US law. It says that aggression, which is the invasion of a foreign country, must be approved by the Security Council or it is illegal. But Bush and Cheney flouted that law and made millions for themselves and billions for their friends. They killed at least hundreds of thousands of people, probably more than a million. You're going to tell me that the poor are ahead of them in the abuse scoreboard? The entire area is chaos right now, a direct consequence of that invasion, with US corporations reaping the reward, billions of dollars stuffed into duffel bags and stolen. You have never breathed one word about the outrage of any of this. A million dead, multi trillions of dollars stolen from the US taxpayer down the toilet and into the hands of the rich. You can't be serious when you say for you rich crime and poor crime is all the same.

Chad said...

Ex - But your advocating something that very few people actually want changed - sure you can deflect the billions on ads to eat Burger King by un-natural forces (gov't or by a dictators rule), but that hole will be filled by the next vice - they next hot thing. Your forgetting the most likely millions of jobs attached to advertising that keeps people employed. What we humans actually need to survive is far far less than what we actually buy and use - this is not rocket science sir. It also generates taxes to pay teachers and firefighters and other critical services.

The "excesses" as you call it that capital creates is frankly the driving force for employment. Hell I would be out of a job if not for "excesses" and I am pretty sure it would eliminate what - 50% of the jobs in the world?

That is a very poor poor thought process to cripple the world to reduce the excesses that drive the worlds financial well being.

Chad said...

Ex continued

.... and to attempt to tie the mechanism of capitalism which is to make the lowest cost product while selling it at the highest possible margin to Christianity.

Chad said...

JC - I don't condone any of what you wrote. Its funny that no matter how I write my feelings on foreign affairs you turn it back toward me when I am in agreement with you. Put every SOB that broke the law, stole the money illegal in jail - I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with you.

If a friend of the administration won contracts in war to make them millions and a law got broke - fry them too.

The confusion and the grey area is always and will always be in the murders and deaths via war/conflict. If we followed your thought process - our President along with other high ranking officials would be on trial for murder, Castro hung and just about every other leader in the world would be on trial or in jail for one crime or another. What your talking about can not and will not be ever changed Jon.

Your willing to imprison leader by leader - President by President until who is left? Talk about world chaos - you'll have it pal. Gov'ts are meant to be above the "law" during conflict or war - you should know that.

Here is the thing I hold onto - who is the lessor of the greatest evils and to me it is clearly the United States and a few other countries who share similar values of freedom.

What your trying to argue and change is something that will never ever change. War will always be a possibility no matter who is in charge, unfortunate casualties, innocent people in 3rd world countries will die unjustly forever. What you have to decide for yourself is which of the evils you can live with and when I get in my car in a few minutes for lunch, I do not have to be armed (by have the right to do so), I can roll my windows down, turn my music up, I have umpteen choices to eat without worry that I will be kidnapped, shot or injured (for the most part) because of my beliefs, my religion or anything I may say/do. There is no immediate threat to my life and the life of pretty much every US citizen - I call that a win and if protecting this way of life requires military action - I would prefer it not to happen, but it will.

If in another country with my wife and she is not covered up or looks at another man she can be killed.

You choose which is the better evil and get on board - your puking all over the people/gov't that gives you the very freedoms you get to enjoy. It comes at a terrible cost to be sure, but it is by far the better evil so what are we talking about?

Chad said...

To answer your question directly sir - the rich rich make up what 1% of Americans - maybe 33,000 people - lets round it up and say the elite and rich rich is 100,000 people out there in America. Very few of those people break laws - maybe their methods are questionable, but they are generally not breaking the law. For the sake of your argument here lets say 20% of those people are breaking or have broken a law which is probably 10 times the facts. So we have 20,000 people at most that you are referring to. Last article/stat I read said that 300,000 illegals hit America per year. Everyone of those people have committed a felony.

Once again your hatred to the rich is blinding you to the facts sir and probably one of the reasons I didn't mention so called Blue Collar crimes because they are but a tiny little blip.

Jon said...

Gov'ts are meant to be above the "law" during conflict or war - you should know that.

No. It's your belief in this kind of a system that leads to where we are. If you just accept that they can break laws they will never be held accountable. World leaders have been held accountable before.

So we have 20,000 people at most that you are referring to. Last article/stat I read said that 300,000 illegals hit America per year. Everyone of those people have committed a felony.

I'm not saying that more rich people have committed crimes than poor people. Like you say there's not that many rich people. What I'm saying is the crimes of rich people have done far more damage. A million dead in Iraq, the present chaos. The rich tanked our economy in 2008 causing massive suffering, unemployment, lost homes, people unable to go to the doctor who ultimately die. Toxins straight into the river. Yeah it's only a few people that do it, but they cause suffering to millions of people. These immigrants aren't really harming either of us to any degree where we actually feel it. I don't see a million corpses as a result of them crossing the border.

So my question to you is why do you focus on the crimes of the poor, which do much less damage to Americans and others around the world, and ignore the crimes of the rich, which cause enormous suffering? Are bankers above the law in times of war? Companies that store toxic chemicals? Heirs that repeatedly rape children? You constantly say "Sure, they should all be held accountable" but you never bring them up in discussion, only the illegal immigrants. I say you prioritize the crimes of the poor. Do you think what I'm saying is true?

Examinator said...

Just a thought, the notion that "without the excesses you wouldn't have a job." is what you've been inculcated with...conditioned to think.
Common sense dictates and history proves that where one opportunity closes there is always another opens or becomes viable.
i.e. the job ( letter press lithographic photographer) I took when I left high school( at 16), in fact the trade and industry ceased to exist 3 years after I was sacked.
All the tradies of that time migrated into the new industry computer composition for Off set printing.
In the early 1800 the British cotton weavers ( several trades) were upset that whole towns would be unemployed with the advent of the 'Spinning Jenny' ( powered machine spinning machines. Some rioted (they were led by a Ned Luddite) they became known as "Luddites" a symbol of fear of change.
Fact: 'The industrial revolution' these machines actually created far more jobs than was lost.
the same happened with the advent of computer printing and the 'paperless (sic) office...computerisation.
Fact: order of magnitude more office paper is used today Because of the 'paperless office'
Like me You may lose your current job but Human need for 'products' and services will continue to grow. Therefore the most likely out come is that your job will change.... the question is are you able to change to meet the new circumstances? I was and in fact improved my status wage etc... considerably.
In truth most people are frightened of change because the future potentially unknown.
The fear is always greater than the reality in this scenario.
Business (capitalists)in their corporations want to continue with the status quo. As I've said before the FIRST goal of an organization is its own longevity and the workers serve that goal.
It's demonstrable BS to suggest that Capitalism as it is practised encourages competition and innovation.
It is not primarily the mega rich that are tax avoiders it's the Corporations and the industry that has built up to avoid tax.
Again without them the Tax take would mean less tax for more people.
Another way of looking at it is say a person who milks the insurance payout in court. The truth is it is these outrageous judgements and from which Attournies reap outrageous fees.( (I've seen 60-80% of settlements) it is the combination and all the hangers on that force insurance premiums up for the majority.
I have no problem about making money but it's the way that I abhor.

Chad said...


So once again you want to incarcerate every leader out there along with all the versions of Congress as well - great plan that will work famously. Why stop there - why not go after the pilot or the soldier who during war kills a so called innocent person - put them all in jail, but make sure all the illegals stay out of prison.

Your argument is no longer about crime then - your associating the rich with the 2008 crash now so you've changed the narrative again. Not to rehash - the rich simply were smarter than gov't - like it always is and always will be and that is not a crime. Gov't says we will give loans to people who can not afford them and the rich (and the not so rich like myself)immediately began flipping houses, investing in various pieces of finance and real estate. There was not a single solitary person that I spoke who did not know/expect that bubble would burst so why the big shock Jon? My only regret was that I didn't have more money to invest - I was small fish with a small percentage of the pie starting off and really was only able to make one deal on my own before the worm turned. So now everyone who made money during that time is a criminal?

I thought the discussion was the impact in dollars when the rich commit and are prosecuted (even toss in the obvious guilty ones who didn't get nabbed) a crime vs the actual dollars illegal citizens cost this country. We were not lumping in all criminals and the costs - just illegals vs your rich. Keeping in mind that most of those rich bastards we both hate who commit crimes actually employed people along the way. Those gov't contracts to go into a hostile area to build roads, schools and bridges - actual people got paid hazard pay as well don't forget. One guy I know made $100k for 3 months work running machines digging holes - got shot at a couple times for it, but he made some huge dollar bills over 90 days.

Chad said...

Ex - Its funny how elitist talk - put people down (brainwashed and conditioned) and ignore that they have simply swallowed the blue pill instead of the red pill. Even though your also brainwashed in a different way you still believe that you know better that the rest of us out there - funny how that works.

Capitalism in its true form is a faceless, colorless, orderless, heartless entity. Its the most pure form of supply and demand - it does promote competition - it does promote innovation - it does create. What taints capitalism is people - it is gov'ts picking winners and loser and it is that nasty old word which is greed.

This entire discussion was about this one guy attacking capitalism when really he was attacking the Capitalist (person/people) and if you listen carefully he was actually attacking the rich and powerful which is why Jon picked the topic/video in the first place.

What you said about changing innovation is elementary - my 8 year old understands that basic principal. We bought the Wii U for him last year and when we go to the store he only buys Wii U games now because my 8 year old said to me last week that people who make games will soon stop making regular Wii games because the Wii U is the future.

Insurance fraud has absolutely zero to do with Capitalism - not sure exactly why you mentioned it at all - it does not fit in this discussion.

What abstract opportunities are created outside of true capitalism is not capitalism's fault. If a women buys hot coffee from McD's - spills said hot coffee on her lap and the court allows her to collect $50 million dollars that has nothing to do with capitalism. That situation is a parasite to Capitalism.

True Capitalism is actually the answer to many problems we have - it naturally has the ability if given the chance to work properly to reduce the gap from the ultra rich and the poor - it has the ability to do a lot of really great things. The nasty word here is competition.

The problem that I have as a person who believes in Capitalism is that the rules, regs, taxes and market conditions today are frankly setup for the rich to continue getting richer. Wal-Mart is an absolute monster now. There is no way that I would have the opportunity to start my own version of Wal-Mart so how can you do that without negatively influencing the market or picking winners and losers?

Now that is the million dollar question and unfortunately I am coming to the conclusion that it can not be done naturally any longer. Setting aside my complete distrust of gov't for one second the only possible way to reverse this horrible trend will require gov't - it will require gov't to do a couple things. Incentivize capital investments in small businesses and to ease regulations/taxes for small businesses.

Jon wants to back a dump truck up to the Walton's Estate and load up their money - just take it and then hand it out. I don't want to steal anything that way - I personally would rather take the Wal-Mart dynasty down by incentivizing new businesses that can compete with the beast.

How to do that without being too big of an influence is beyond me, but I think it can be done in a way that does not destroy the basic principals of Capitalism.

Examinator said...

If you are to be taken seriously may I suggest that you stop opening up with the standard tired cliché attacks.
I don't believe I know better than you or anyone else! That is utter paranoid BS tactic to take/change the topic. The truth is I am merely pointing out the emotive flaws and inconsistencies in your logic.
Neither is it a case of red pill or blue pill conditioning. That is yet again your binary view that people (me) are binary in their attitudes (i.e. either one or the other), clearly I'm not!
In you latest piece you confuse cause and effect and attribute morality to an abstract entity (tool if you like) in this case, capitalism. It is the same logic as to firearms both are inert and as such have no intrinsic morality. The questionable issue is how both are used and or what is/are facilitated by way of actions.
As I have cited many times infanticide is abhorrent in our cultural conditioning however in the case of the Moriori it was integral to their survival. The point being all three concepts/ tools are amoral (without intrinsic morality) and as such dependent on what we do with them and what our conditioning chooses to impart them with.
Capitalism, communism, socialism et al as concepts they are all flawed in that they have no real parameters i.e. (moral) boundaries. All of which are appropriate when dealing with people (humans).
From my perspective binary moralizing on Capitalism et al is as meaningful as debating that rain is either moral or immoral. Clearly all require parameters … to much rain is bad, not enough rain is also bad, ergo the key is to decide/debate how much is too much or not enough.
Your previous statements on excess is the (only) reason for your employment is clearly nonsensical (makes no sense) in that where there is a need for services etc there with soon or later be some one to supply them. Be that steel for a new factory or prostitution.
I would argue that too much capitalism (et al including ideology) is bad because it/they exclude doesn't allow for others. More specifically the rights of others.
Statistics (democracy) only works to its optimum best when all those involves are included i.e. the extremes on both ends cancel each other out.
Sadly Capitalism and religion (ideology) today is based on unequal power that skews the intrinsic evening away from the optimal good.
To borrow a phrase from John Stewart Mill (a conservative) (“)While it's true that not all capitalists are selfish and predatory bullies, it is true that most selfish predatory bullies are capitalists(”).
in short IN MY OPINION CAPITALISM AS IT IS PRACTISED IS MOSTLY EXCESSIVE AND THEREFORE BAD and as such can't be trusted to act in the wider public's best interests.

Examinator said...

"capitalism doesn't add up"
and neither do its exponents they grab and make up the costs as they go.