Thursday, May 31, 2012

Obama on Due Process for Arab Americans in 2004

Obama gave the keynote address at the Democratic convention in 2004. A pretty good speech. One statement popped out at me, and it may have been the single statement within the speech that got the loudest applause:
If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child.


If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for their prescription and having to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandparent.


If there's an Arab-American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties.

(Crowd erupts and stands)

Earlier he had talked about how in America we can say what we think, write what we think, without hearing a sudden knock on the door. You can get the transcript here or watch the video here.

As President Obama ordered the assassination of Anwar Al Awlaki. He was alleged to have committed crimes, but no evidence was presented. He did advocate the violent overthrow of the US government, but that is legally protected speech. About two weeks later his 16 year old son, a boy born in Colorado, was likewise droned. There was no apparent effort to apprehend these alleged criminals peacefully.

Things have progressed since then. This NY Times article explains how today's list includes several more Americans. Two among the 15 are teenagers, one of whom is a girl aged 17. If Bush detaining Arab-Americans with no due process was a threat, what of assassinating Arab-Americans with no due process?


Chad said...

As we all know, Jon has complete access to all the intelligence available on these criminals.

Jon would prefer that these criminals kill thousands before taking action. He will get his evidence in a bunch of body bags.

Just yet another attempt to justify the absolute ridiculous so that the kinda ridiculous becomes the norm.

Straight from the Communist Manifesto playbook.

Examinator said...

Please show me where in the Communist Manifesto this is written.
So I can tell the Universities that they're all teaching the political philosophy of 'Communism' wrong. My apology for the sarcasm but I do wish you would stick to what you know as fact not urban myths.

You are indulging in both 'confirmational thinking' and and 'motivated reasoning'.
I think what you are referring to is the despotic tendencies of both left and right extremist governments. By any reasonable definition Obama is neither. That does not mean that he (his government) doesn't have elements that we don't like or wish could be improved.

Any conversation that is pitch at one extreme V the opposite extreme is pointless.

I don't think Jon is extremist in his views albeit a trifle myopic. Then again that is National or Party Politics. HL Menkin said “every thinking person should be ashamed of their government” and I am. By that I mean that there isn't a Dogma (rigidity absolutist) in the world that is bullet proof ...THEY ARE ALL FATALLY FLAWED therefore it stands to reason that the closser a government gets to one particular dogma the more flawed the government becomes.
Keep in mind that Dr Samuel Johnson ( an influencing philosopher) of the Founding fathers wrote “ that nationalism is the last (first) resort of a scoundrel” by that he meant if a proposition can only be justified by nationalism then the proponent doesn't have the people's interests at heart. (he has other agendas)

One reason I left is the insular naval gazing nationalism of *US political interests * to the exclusion of anything else.

Where is your proof that the Muslim word as a whole is any more or less bizarre, blood thirsty than the USA ? The US is the largest manufacturer and seller of weaponry and has a history of not being too choosy about who it supports....i.e. Iran contra affair, US support for Ho Chi Mihn, the Shar of Iran, Saddam Hussein against Iran (because they threw out a despotic dictator), the list goes on and on and on.
I would argue that the % of nutters/ population is about the same... there are 300milion US Americans and there are nearly 2 billion Muslims. Rational thinking would conclude that the actual numbers would be higher add to that the historic facts, and(temporarily) wider spread poverty and you can see why.
That doesn't mean that I support/tolerate the nutters nor do I support the afore mentioned egotism and it's consequences for the USA or the West generally.

Jon said...

That's a pretty incredible comment, Chad. Here you are, a guy that objects to "theft" from the government that steals from the rich and gives to the poor. "Government overreach!! Government is incometent!! Government can't be trusted!!"

Here your government siezes about the most radical powers that you could conceive of. The power to assassinate anyone, whether in a war zone or not. Based on secret deliberations.

This really puts the lie to any claim of yours to support small government. Also any claim of concern for the Constitution, which demands due process for people accused of crimes. If they taxed you that would be an outrage. If they bomb you, oh well. They must have access to secret evidence. Trust them. I don't trust them. You do. You're the biggest supporter of big government here.